Really??! I enjoy his books. That is really fucking disappointing. Why do people have to be such ass holes? (I'm having "that" kind of day). And the thing that bugs me so much about finding out something like this about someone I like (or, whose writing I like) is now every time I read one of his books, I'll think of that, and enjoy it a little bit less.
Agreed. I suppose his views on homosexuality shouldn't affect my enjoyment of his work--but they do. I don't think I'll be buying any more of his books.
I say this with the full awareness that I probably enjoy the work of many people out there whose views I don't know and might find dreadful, but well, now I know. So it does change everything.
It's not just his views on homosexuality. Unfortunately that becomes a commentary on the kind of person he is. And I can't read an author's books, knowing they're hateful towards people, and feel the same way about their work.
It's true. There are probably authors I enjoy who have dreadful views. But I'm not going to vet every one of them before I start reading. Sadly, it's a live and learn process. And when we do learn, it ruins it sometimes.
Sorry. This kind of thing can be really disappointing.
You're right--it's more a comment on how he views other humans. And there's no way to vet everyone you're going to interact with--even remotely--but it's still disappointing.
Such a shock and disappointment. But that's the thing, right? People aren't as conveniently black/white as I'd like them to be. Still unreasonably infuriated that I held such a high regard for him based on his books.
Ak! You are not kidding about that article being infuriating! I'm not even going to get started on this issue because we'll be here all day. Let me just say that people who blame "the gays" (and WTF is up with that phrase??) for their own failings have so many other issues they can't find their own head with two hand and a flashlight. Why are people so hateful?? Why are they so afraid?
Side note: Serenity_Valley and Str8on gave us a baby t-shirt before Miss M was born that says "They're raising me gay". It's awesome. And that's how we're raising her. She is what she is. The other day I was out with Maddie and someone was commenting on how she's so cute, and some day she's going to break boys hearts. And I said, "or make some girl or boy very happy", and the woman didn't say anything, just looked at me. I wasn't sure if she thought I was crazy, agreed with me but didn't want to get into it, disagreed and didn't want to get into it. But I wanted to say, get used to it. This is our reality. People love who they love. Learn to love it too.
That is so awesome--about the teeshirt and your parenting perspective.
I can only imagine how awesome it would be for some little boy or girl growing up and knowing that their parents, at least, didn't have pigeonholed assumptions about them!
I know it says more about me that I can't separate an artist's work from their personality, but the fact is, I am often affected by stuff like this. Not always, and my love for the material sometimes overshadows whatever assholery of the person who created it, but more often than not.
That said, I don't think artists should muzzle themselves for fear of losing their audience. I understand the instinct to do so, and if they don't feel strongly about an issue to say anything publicly, that's cool. But I guess because I'm so passionate about what I believe in and have no problem engaging with those who disagree (and possibly learning from them), I can't NOT speak my mind...even if it meant losing my audience. I mean, those beliefs are part of me, they're part of my work, and I have a hard time believing that's not true for others.
I'm right there with you in being too passionate to be quiet.
I think that if you don't have anything to be ashamed of, you don't think you need to muzzle yourself. I guess I'm less tolerant of the muzzling instinct. I don't think people with a public presence should have to disclose all their beliefs or even be forced to defend them, but the reality is --if what you believe makes you a terrible person in my mind, you probably don't want me as your audience anyway.
I ran across his frothing bullshit a few years ago, and was horrified. (He's a Mormon, so I suppose I *shouldn't* have been entirely startled, but I was.)
I haven't bought a book of his since. I'll read them from the library, but he'll never see another penny in royalties from me. It's all I can do.
ETA : just to be clear, not that I think all Mormons are assholes, far from it. But a subset of every religion is fundamentalist or conservative, and a certain strict hard-line Biblical interpretation does lend itself to sexism and homophobia.
You know, as someone who just doesn't like organized religion of any stripe, I wouldn't have bothered to qualify that. Religions--the institutions, not all people who believe in aspects of them--are divisive, breeding grounds for hypocrisy.
I have religious friends who I love and respect, but that's because in large part, their beliefs have expanded beyond what their religions preach.
Yeah, he's pretty hateful. I love some of his books, though, so I try really hard to buy them at Half Price Books - I think the authors don't get royalties from that (or certainly they don't get as much).
You obviously don't read james_nicoll. One of his favorite hobbies is posting links to OSC essays that make his flist collectively clutch their heads in pain.
Seriously, it's kind of like an exercise in behavorial conditioning. Most people (including me) won't even click the links anymore; we just go "Aaagh!" and move on.
Sort of regular guy. Click on his userinfo and you'll know from whence he comes. I stumbled upon him completely randomly, even though I had used his quote as a .sig for years.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:19 pm (UTC)I say this with the full awareness that I probably enjoy the work of many people out there whose views I don't know and might find dreadful, but well, now I know. So it does change everything.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:34 pm (UTC)It's true. There are probably authors I enjoy who have dreadful views. But I'm not going to vet every one of them before I start reading. Sadly, it's a live and learn process. And when we do learn, it ruins it sometimes.
Sorry. This kind of thing can be really disappointing.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 07:08 pm (UTC)I read some articles by him and about him awhile back and decided I had no interest in reading his books, even though I knew people who liked them.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:27 pm (UTC)Side note: Serenity_Valley and Str8on gave us a baby t-shirt before Miss M was born that says "They're raising me gay". It's awesome. And that's how we're raising her. She is what she is. The other day I was out with Maddie and someone was commenting on how she's so cute, and some day she's going to break boys hearts. And I said, "or make some girl or boy very happy", and the woman didn't say anything, just looked at me. I wasn't sure if she thought I was crazy, agreed with me but didn't want to get into it, disagreed and didn't want to get into it. But I wanted to say, get used to it. This is our reality. People love who they love. Learn to love it too.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 06:29 pm (UTC)I can only imagine how awesome it would be for some little boy or girl growing up and knowing that their parents, at least, didn't have pigeonholed assumptions about them!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 07:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 07:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 07:15 pm (UTC)That said, I don't think artists should muzzle themselves for fear of losing their audience. I understand the instinct to do so, and if they don't feel strongly about an issue to say anything publicly, that's cool. But I guess because I'm so passionate about what I believe in and have no problem engaging with those who disagree (and possibly learning from them), I can't NOT speak my mind...even if it meant losing my audience. I mean, those beliefs are part of me, they're part of my work, and I have a hard time believing that's not true for others.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 08:22 pm (UTC)I think that if you don't have anything to be ashamed of, you don't think you need to muzzle yourself. I guess I'm less tolerant of the muzzling instinct. I don't think people with a public presence should have to disclose all their beliefs or even be forced to defend them, but the reality is --if what you believe makes you a terrible person in my mind, you probably don't want me as your audience anyway.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 10:57 pm (UTC)The only type of voting I do re: idiot authors, actors, etc is, alas, the type I do with my wallet. But that'll do with Mr Card.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-26 03:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 07:37 pm (UTC)I haven't bought a book of his since. I'll read them from the library, but he'll never see another penny in royalties from me. It's all I can do.
ETA : just to be clear, not that I think all Mormons are assholes, far from it. But a subset of every religion is fundamentalist or conservative, and a certain strict hard-line Biblical interpretation does lend itself to sexism and homophobia.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 08:15 pm (UTC)I have religious friends who I love and respect, but that's because in large part, their beliefs have expanded beyond what their religions preach.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 09:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 10:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 09:45 pm (UTC)I saw him at San Diego Comic Con. He looks like a sane person, but he obviously isn't one.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 09:49 pm (UTC)Unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-25 10:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-27 07:37 pm (UTC)Seriously, it's kind of like an exercise in behavorial conditioning. Most people (including me) won't even click the links anymore; we just go "Aaagh!" and move on.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-27 07:41 pm (UTC)Well, I really won't be reading more of any OSC stuff. It was just such a shock.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-27 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-27 07:51 pm (UTC)